Srpski Dobrodošli na Blog tradicionalne astrologije astrologa Nataše Karalić Koprivice. Blog je dvojezičan i sadrži tekstove na srpskom i engleskom jeziku. Na ovom mestu možete čitati tekstove o pojmu, predmetu i poreklu (istorijatu) astrologije, natalnoj, elekcionoj, horarnoj i mundanoj astrologiji. Blog predstavlja konzervativan pristup astrologiji, onakav kakav je bio u delima astroloških velikana poput: Marka Manilija, Klaudija Galena, Doroteja Sidonskog, Klaudija Ptolomeja, Firmika Materna, Mašalaha, Al Birunija, Ibn Ezre, Al Hajata, Gvida Bonatija, Vilijama Lilija, Nikolasa Kalpepera i drugih. Ukoliko ste posebno zainteresovani za horarnu astrologiju, pozivamo vas da posetite i Blog horarne astrologije.

English Welcome to the Natasa Karalic Koprivica's Traditional Astrology Blog. The Blog is bilingual and contains articles in Serbian and English. Here you can read articles on the notion, subject and history (origin) of Astrology and on Natal, Electional, Horary and Mundane Astrology as well. Blog represents conservative approach to Astrology, as it was in the works of the Greats such as: Marcus Manilius, Claudius Galen, Dorotheus of Sidon, Claudius Ptolemy, Firmicus Maternus, Masha'allah, Al-Biruni, Ibn Ezra, Al Khayyat, Guido Bonatti, William Lilly, Nicholas Culpeper and others. If you are particularly interested in Horary Astrology, we invite you to visit and Horary Astrology Blog.

14 November 2010

Octatopos (Eight Houses Horoscope)

The development of horoscopic, mathematical astrology is of a relatively late historical date. Up until the end of pre-Christian era mathematics and astronomy were relatively undeveloped so the methods of calculating mundane houses were equally imprecise and not always accurate. The more precise calculations occur, roughly speaking, in Ptolemy’s time. It is believed that the astrology of mundane houses, the mundane division of zodiac and ecliptic, was developed in the early Hellenistic period. The first division, from which all the others, more complex ones were deduced was the mundane quadrant system which is in theory also known as “the system of centre” or “cardines system.” Hence, the first mathematical horoscopes comprised the four mundane parts of the chart divided by the four celestial points. The first point is that of the ecliptic which arises above the horizon in the moment of the astrological interrogation, the second occupies the point of the meridian’s (the longitudinal arc which passes through the observer’s zenith) intersection with the ecliptic, the third is at the ecliptic’s setting point and the fourth is situated in direct opposition to the second, i.e. on the degree where the second half of the meridian intersects the second half of the ecliptic. At that time, the first point was called “horoscopos”, the second is also known today as “medium coeli”, the third was termed “ovois”, in Latin “occasus” and the fourth is today’s “immum coeli.” The first horoscopes functioned for a short period of time within the framework of the four mundane points and this is mentioned in an old hermetic work, in the chapter XXIV where it’s written: “On the four quarters of a person and how you can discern the four ages of man from his birth. The beginning is the horoscope (ascendant). From this point up to medium coeli is the eastern, masculine quarter and it signifies the first part of life. From the degree of the MC to occasus is the feminine and meridional quarter which signifies the middle part of life. It is also called southern, meridional quadrant. The third quarter is from occasus to the lower meridian and it is a masculine one which symbolizes the first part of the old age. The last quarter from IC to ascendant is northern and feminine and signifies the ultimate, decrepit old age.” (“The History of western Astrology”, Jim Tester, ‘Prosveta’, 1996. Belgrade). The early astrology performed for a very short period of time within the boundaries of these four quarters so the areas of life were distributed according to the natural symbolism of the planets which we also recognize today. The planets substituted houses as we know them today in their essential symbolism. In the same book it is further stated that: “If the Moon is in the ascendant, and Venus in the setting quarter, and Mars on the MC, then a child of a slave woman will be born or of some other person from a lower social status…” It is interesting that, based upon this principle, we could analyze all kinds of horoscopes even today, quadrants signifying different parts of life and planets symbolizing all the rest. This primary and great influence of the planets survived in what we term today their ‘natural rulerships, in contrast to their mundane dispositions. Venus signified marriage, the Moon physical fitness and vitality, the Sun the active principle of influence and dominion, Mars warrior spirit and inclination for work and productiveness, Jupiter expansion, money, beneficence, Saturn restrictions, old age, etc. By a simple analysis of the relations among the planets within the four quadrants the chart was judged.


After quadritopos, octatopos emerges in Hipparchus’s time, the mundane system of eight houses which was constructed by a simple division of each quadrant into two parts so that every cardinal point comprises two houses, one which arises before it in the direction of primary motion and another which arises after it. The significations of these houses remained constant until this day, meaning that the interpretation of a horoscope ended with the 8th house. The areas of life which are today assigned to the 9th, 10th, 11th and the 12th were signified by the relevant planet’s natural symbolism and its analogue house according to the Chaldean order. Saturn started the sequence (the ascendant, its natural rulership according to astronomical order) and ended it as well so every planet ruled one house except Saturn which ruled two, considering his ontological symbolism tied to the beginning of time, birth and death, depending upon  belief. This system, in my humble opinion, wasn’t at all the result of undeveloped mathematical astrology but the consequence of a logical decision of astrologers not to connect mundane houses to zodiacal signs, but to the planets, which is actually correct if we bear in mind that the zodiac symbolizes the timeless which serves as a conceptual framework for the planetary movement, symbolizing time. Mundane houses, as their name testifies, are worldly, and as such, temporal. If it weren’t so, time wouldn’t be a constant in the formula for their calculation. Hence the perfect logic of the first thinkers which connect mundane houses to the planets starting with Saturn and ending the circle with him as well. Mundane houses are essentially moveable but apparently fixed framework in which, just the same, the essentially immovable zodiacal sphere appears to be moving. By positioning planets according to Chaldean order in the diagram’s quadrants (the first ones were such) octatopos becomes perfectly clear. Even today, practically, you can change your natal chart into this mundane form with all the possible variations regarding mundane systems. In that time, about two centuries BC, the entire sign of the ascendant represented the first house. The 1st half of the second sign was a border between the 1st and the 2nd  houses which ranged up to the IC, representing the beginning of the 3rd (the fourth sign from the ascendant) and it extended up to the first half of the 5th sign where the 4th  house  began, ranging up to ‘occasus’ which designated the beginning of the 5th house, all the way up to the first half of the 8th sign from the ascendant where the 6th house emerged. From the 10th sign, covering it and the first half of the next sign, the 7th was to be found. From the second half of the 11th sign up to the ascendant, the 8th house was located. The 3rd  house of octatopos, (the 4th of today), signified travelling and brothers, for example. The 7th signified things pertaining to marriage and rulership/influence. The house was simply brought into connection with the symbolism of the planets according to their Chaldean order so the 4th house of the octatopos signified everything pertaining to solar domain, since the Sun is the 4th planet in this order (the father, but the worldly status as well). The 5th carries the same meaning as today, since it is Venus’s place in the circle, the 6th belonged to Mercury, hence medical science, diseases but the intellect as well, the 7th belonged to the Moon so it signified marriage and to a certain extent, profession, the 8th signified secret enemies, death, the greatest miseries in life, in accordance with the symbolism of Saturn. The second house carried Jupiter’s symbolism – money, beneficence, livelihood, etc. The vestiges of octatopos can be found in traces in some later astrologers’ works which mainly used the system of 12 houses. One such example is encountered in the 8th book of “Matheseos Libri” (Firmicus Maternus) in the chapter “On the 8 houses” where he terms the 1st house vita (life), the 2nd lucrum (gain), the 3rd fraters (brothers), the 4th parentes (parents), the 5th filii (children), the 6th valetudo (health), the 7th coniunx (spouse)  and the 8th mors (death).


Especially interesting examples of octatopos vestiges can be found in Culpeper’s “Judgement of Diseases" from the Decumbiture of the Sick where he writes about the decumbitures comprising eight houses, as opposed to the, then far more widespread, decumbiture of the 16 houses (hexakaidekahedron). He states that the octatopos system was used by Hippocrates and Galen. A decumbiture chart is drawn for the moment of disease’s inception, the occurrence of the first symptoms or the first visit to the doctor’s, that is, the first examination. The first house starts at the degree and  minute of the Moon’s location at that time. The first, as well as every subsequent house comprises 45 degrees measured from the initial Moon’s position in the zodiacal order so every house in fact represents a half of a lunar phase. The beginning of the 3rd house, i.e. the 90th degree from the initial lunar position represents the 1st critical point which should be carefully analyzed according to the aspects and potential contacts with the rulers of the 8th or the 4th house, the Moon’s change of speed, the change of latitude or the relation between Moon’s degree and some important fixed star. The second critical phase begins at 180 degrees distance from the Moon’s initial phase, and the third after another 90 degrees of arc. If the disease doesn’t end until the lunar return, it changes from acute to a chronic (long-lasting) one and then octatopos decumbiture chart assumes solar position as its primary point of reference in the beginning of a new lunar cycle. Solar decumbiture is interpreted in the same way as the lunar one, but now the Sun becomes the primary object of inquiry.

Author: Natasa Karalic Koprivica

11 November 2010

Oktatopos (horoskop osam kuća)

Razvitak horoskopske, matematičke astrologije je, relativno, kasnog istorijskog datuma. Sve do kraja prehrišćanske ere matematika i astronomija bile su relativno nerazvijene pa su i metode izračunavanja mundanih kuća bile, jednako tako, neprecizne i ne uvek tačne. Precizniji proračuni javljaju se tek negde oko Ptolomejevog doba. Veruje se da se astrologija mundanih kuća, zemaljska podela Zodijaka i ekliptike, razvila u ranom helenskom periodu. Prva podela iz koje su se kasnije razvile ostale, složenije, podele bio je mudani kvadrantni sistem koji se u teoriji još naziva "sistem centra" ili "kardines sistem". Dakle, prvi matematički horoskopi sadržali su  četiri mundana dela karte omeđena sa četiri nebeske tačke. Prva tačka  jeste tačka ekliptike koja se diže iznad horizonta u vreme astrološkog ispitivanja, druga se tačka nalazi tamo gde meridijan (luk longitude koji prolazi kroz posmatračev zenit) seče ekliptiku, treća tačka pada tamo gde ekliptika zalazi i četvrta stoji direktno suprotna drugoj, dakle, na stepenu gde druga polovina meridijana seče drugu polovinu ekliptike. Prva se u to vreme nazivala horoscopus, druga je i danas poznata kao medium caeli, treća se nazivala ovois, latinski occasus, i četvrta je današnji imum caeli. Prvi horoskopi funkcionisali su kratko u okviru ova četiri mundana dela i o ovome ima reči u jednom starom hermetičkom delu, u glavi XXIV gde stoji: "O četiri četvrtine osobe i o tome kako možete spoznati četiri čovekova doba po osnovu njegovog rođenja. Početak je horoskop (ascendent). Od njega do medium caelija je istočna, muška četvrt i ova četvrt označava prvo doba života. Od stepena mc-a do occasusa stoji ženska i meridijanska četvrtina koja pokriva srednje doba. Naziova se još i južni, meridijanski kvadrant. Treća četvrt prostire se od occasusa do donjeg meridijana i to je muška četvrt koja simbolizuje prvu starost. Poslednja četvrt od ic-a do ascendenta je severna i ženska i označava krajnju i iznurenu starost". ("Istorija zapadne astrologije", Džim Tester, Prosveta, 1996, Beograd). Rana astrologija je vrlo kratko delovala u okviru ove četiri celine pa su se oblasti života raspoređivale prema prirodnoj simbolici planeta koju i danas poznajemo. Planete su zamenjivale današnje kuće u svojoj osnovnoj simbolici. U istom delu dalje se kaže: "Ako je Mesec u ascendentu, a Venera u četvrti zalaska, a Mars u mc-u, onda će se roditi dete ropkinje ili neke osobe nižeg društvenog položaja..." Zanimljivo je to da bi, po ovom principu, i danas mogli da tumačimo sve vrste horoskopa gde kavadranti označavaju doba života, a planete sve ostalo. Ova primarna i velika uloga planeta zadržala se u onome što nazivamo njihovim prirodnim vladarstvima, nasuprot njihovim mundanim dispozicijama. Venera je pokrivala brak, Mesec telesnu kondiciju i vitalnost, Sunce aktivni princip afirmacije i vladanja, Mars ratnički duh i sklonost poslu i stvaranju, Jupiter ekspanziju, novac, beneficije, Saturn restrikcije, starost itd. Jednostavnim pregledom odnosa unutar četiri kvadranta između planeta tumačila se i horoskopska karta.


Posle kvadritoposa na istorijsku scenu u Hiparhovo doba stupa oktatopos, mundani sistem osam kuća, koji se dobijao prostom podelom svakog kvadranta na dva dela tako da svaka kardinalna tačka ima dve kuće, jednu koja se diže pre nje u pravcu primarne rotacije i jednu koja izlazi posle. Značenja tih kuća su ista kao i danas, što znači da se interpretacija horoskopa završavala sa VIII kućom. Oblasti koje danas pripadaju IX, X, XI i XII polju bile su pokrivane kroz prirodnu simboliku relevantne planete i njihovu pripadajuću kuću prema haldejskom redu. Počinjalo se sa Saturnom (ascendent, prirodno vladarstvo prema astronomskom redosledu) i završavalo sa istim pa je svaka planeta imala po jednu kuću osim Saturna koji je dobijao dve, obzirom da je njegova ontološka simbolika vezana za početak vremena, rođenje i smrt , zavisno od verovanja. Ovaj sistem, po mom skromnom mišljenju, uopšte nije bio posledica nerazvijenosti matematičke astrologije već pre logička odluka tadašnjih astrologa da mundane kuće ne povezuju sa zodijačkim znacima već planetama što je, zapravo, vrlo ispravno ukoliko uvek na umu imamo činjenicu da je Zodijak simbol vanvremenskog u cijem idejnom okviru kruže nosioci vremena, planete. Mundane kuće, kako im samo ime kaze, su svetovne i, kao takve, jednako vremenske. Da nije tako, vreme ne bi ni bilo konstanta u formuli za njihovo izračunavnja. Dakle, savršena logika prvih mislilaca koji mundana polja dovode u vezu sa planetama počinjući sa Saturnom i zatvarajući krug sa istim. Mundane kuće su suštinski pokretni, a prividno fiksni okvir u kojem se jednako tako prividno kreće suštinski nepokretna zodijačka sfera. Crtanjem planeta prema haldejskom redosledu u kvadrantni dijagram (takvi su bili prvi) oktatopos postaje besprekorno jasan. I danas, praktično, svoj horoskop možete prebaciti u ovu mundanu formu sa svim mogućim varijacijama što se mundanog sistema tice. U to vreme, oko dva veka p.n.e. znak ascendenta pripadao je ceo prvoj kući. Polovina drugog znaka je bila granica između I i II kuće koja se prostirala do ic-a gde je počinjala treća (četvrti znak od znaka ascendenta) i ona se prostirala do polovine petog znaka gde je startovala IV po redu do occasusa sa kojom je počinjala V sve do polovine osmog znaka od ascendenta gde počinje VI. Od destog znaka od ascendenta, koja pokriva taj i polovinu narednog znaka, upisuje se VII kuća. Od druge polovine jedanaestog znaka od ascendenta do znaka ascendenta prostirala se VIII kuća. III kuća octatoposa, IV današnja, pokrivala je putovanja i braću, recimo. VII je bila i kuća braka i kuća afirmacije. Kuću jednostavno dovodimo u vezu sa simbolikom planete prema haldejskom poretku pa tako IV oktatoposa pokriva sve iz solarnog domena ozbirom da je Sunce četvrto u poretku (to je i otac, ali i svetovna afirmacija). V nosi ista značenja kao i danas ozbirom na Venerino mesto u krugu, VI je pripadala Merkuru, dakle medicini, bolestima, ali i intelektu, VII Mesecu, braku i delimično profesiji, VIII tajnim neprijateljima, smrti, najvecim životnim nedaćama, u skladu sa Saturnovom simbolikom. Druga kuća je pripadala Jupiterovoj simbolici, novcu, beneficijama, imovini itd.  Ostatke oktatoposa možemo u naznakama pronaći kod nekih poznijih astrologa koji su primenjivali, uglavnom, samo sistem XII kuća. Na jedan takav primer nailazimo u VIII knjizi Matezisa od Firmika Materna u poglavlju "O VIII kuća" gde prvu kuću naziva vita (život), drugu lucrum (dobitak), treću fratres (braća), četvrtu parentes (roditelji), petu filii (deca), šestu valetudo (zdravlje), sedmu coniunx (supruga) i osmu mors (smrt).


Posebno zanimljivi primer ostatka oktatopos sistema nalazimo i kod Kalpepera u "Astrološkim prosuđivanjima bolesti" kada govori o dekumbiturama osam kuća nasuprot, u to vreme, rasprostranjenim dekumbiturama 16 kuća (heksakaidekahedroni). Za oktatopos sistem sam kaže da ga je koristio Hipokrat i posle njega Galen. Dekumbiturna karta pravi se za trenutak početka bolesti, prvih simptoma ili prvog obraćanja lekaru, odnosno, prvog pregleda. I kuća počinje na onom stepenu i minutu longitude na kojem se nalazi Mesec u to vreme. Prvoj i svakoj narednoj kući pripada 45 stepeni od startne lunarne pozicije u zodijačkom smeru tako da svaka od osam kuća, zapravo, predstavlja polovinu jedne lunarne faze. Početak III kuće, odnosno, 90. stepen od lunarnog početka, predstavlja prvu kriznu tačku koju posebno valja proceniti prema aspektima i eventualnoj vezi sa vladarem VIII ili IV polja, Mesečevom ubrzanju/usporavanju, promeni latitude ili vezi odnosnog stepena sa nekom bitnom nekretnicom. Druga kritična faza pada na 180 stepeni od Mesečevog starta, a treća posle narednih 45 stepeni. Ukoliko se bolest ne okonča do lunarnog povratka ista iz akutne prelazi u hroničnu (dugotrajnu) fazu kada se oktatopos dekumbitura prebacuje sa lunarne na solarnu poziciju na početku novog lunarnog ciklusa. Solarna dekumbitura tumači se na isti način kao i lunarna s tim sto se posmatra primarno Sunce, a ne Mesec.

Autor: Nataša Karalić Koprivica